An interview with Madonna Wayne Gacy on December 4, 1995 for GastonGazette.
D.S.: How has the road treated you so far?
Pogo: Good, as Always.
D.S.: I was at your show last Thursday in Winston Salem, were you aware that the barricade broke during your 1st song?
Pogo: I don't know, I wasn't really paying that much attention.
D.S.: Would that have affected you in any way?
Pogo: Not me. As long as people don't get on stage too much. We like to see people break shit, it's good, it inspires us to break things, like barricades, each other, equipment.
D.S.: Cool, Even though you have a full length album and a new E.P., does it anger you that you get little or no airplay?
Pogo: It's kind of expected, I mean, we have always relied on live shows. People find out about us by hearing our albums or by word of mouth or because they have been to a live show. Radio and MTV haven't made us therefore they can't break us. That's the kind of band we are, we do what we want, and maybe one day it will catch up to us, but its not up to us what the fuck the radio wants or what MTV wants.
D.S.: I know what you mean, I had to record MTV for three nights just to get the "Dope Hat" video.
Pogo: Wow! I didn't even know they played it.
D.S.: Incredible video, by the way.
Pogo: Oh, well thanks.
D.S.: Are there any plans for Trent Reznor to do any more dance remixes of your songs?
Pogo: I don't know.
D.S.: Would you like to see him do any more?
Pogo: That's up to him really. It depends on how much time he has. It's good to have him as well as a lot of other talented people he uses. It's just whether or not he has the time really. Trent is a very busy man.
D.S.: Would you like to go on tour with him again?
Pogo: If he wants us to, sure, they are like our favorite band to tour with.
D.S.: I love you cover of "Sweet Dreams" and "I put a Spell on You." What other covers would you like to do?
Pogo: We've basically done all the songs we want to cover, although there are a few other one's we've done in the past like Deep Purple's "Space Tracking" and a few other things like that. In fact, we have never really done any covers until the EP. So basically we never were a cover band, we're original, with the exceptions of the few covers we played live. People wanted to hear them on record so we decided to put them on there for the fans.
D.S.: Will any of your demo songs (such as White Knuckles and Dune Buggy) show up on AC Superstar?
Pogo: I don't believe those songs will, but there might be some earlier stuff, maybe "Suicide Snowman."
D.S.: I have read where one of your band's messages is to be yourself and not to be a follower, yet your band has a lot of followers, does that make you feel like your message is not getting across?
Pogo: It get's across to those who need to get it. I mean, 10 different people can read the bible and interpret it 10 different ways, so that's why there are so many diversions of Christianity, so you might as well do the same thing to us. I mean, we know what our message is, but they can interpret it however they want, that's the whole point of it. If they want to be a follower that's fine, we don't promote it, but, you know, we can't control that. But it's like that in any case, like Satanism. We do our own rituals that most people wouldn't understand what the point or message of it was. People are all into the bullshit magic aspects of it, black masses and all that stupid devil worship crap. Satanism is all about individuality and doing what you need to do, so once again stuff gets misinterpreted and as long as you get something out of it that they enjoy, then why not, you know, it doesn't all have to be the same thing.
D.S.: It seems like the band has a lot of different messages, what is the most important one that you would like to get across to the people?
Pogo: Kill the Chicken!! That is the first and most important message that needs to be taught. I have an utter hate for everything mediocre. It has to be either really bad or really good. The stuff in the middle sucks.
D.S.: Could you explain a little bit more about the chicken?
Pogo: The chicken now has become a figurehead for a much greater cause. To kill the chicken does not mean to literally kill a chicken, but it has become a metaphor for a much greater cause related to smashing everything that deserves to be smashed. Not allowing, especially, once again, things that are mediocre, bland, and boring. You know, people who are content don't kill the chicken, people who are exciting, people who have something to do, the Kill the Chicken, they get something done, they change something. So there is a certain amount of excitement there.
D.S.: After seeing the size of this place (picture your livingroom), would you ever like to start playing amphitheaters, or would you rather stay in clubs?
Pogo: It's just whatever, I mean, I don't book the shows, booking agents do that, that's what we pay them for, so you know, I just like playing, it's all about playing. Small places, big places, it's all good to me. To me, being on stage is like jacking off, ok, you do it for yourself, you know, you hear the music and you play the music, so your at a concert but you're giving a concert just like jacking off you're having sex but you're also giving sex, where you're the only person there, and the person that matters too, It's like doing shows, I don't really give a fuck what anybody else thinks, just as long as I enjoy the show, everybody else can go to fucking hell. I don't care if there is 5 or 5,000 because if you have to worry about audiences then you're controlled by them, and I'm not controlled by anybody, so I don't care if they like me or hate me, whatever, as long as I'm into it. That's all that counts.
D.S.: By the way, I have seen you perform twice, I love the way you perform, it's very entertaining.
Pogo: Thanks. Well, see, there again, I don't play that way because you like it, because if I rely on other people's opinions, then I'm controlled by them and we're not about being controlled, we do what we like, and if people don't like it, fuck 'em!
D.S.: How much stuff on Revelation #9 is backwards?
Pogo: Well, there are 13 exact tracks on Revelation #9, it consists of 13 tracks in which at least 6 are reversed.
D.S.: When we played it backwards, we heard things like "Welcome to the other side"
Pogo: Oh yeah, there is all kinds of fan stuff on there, it's playable in any direction. It is equally playable in any direction. It has an equal number of tracks in each direction.
D.S.: Unfortunately, I haven't seen your performance on the Jon Stewart Show. How much damage did you guys cause?
Pogo: Smashed keyboards, lit the stage on fire, broke a lot of stuff, I can't remember the magnitude of the damage because I was on lipids at the time. I don't even remember what happened. Manson is lighting stuff on fire and it's all just crazy. So I don't remember too much of it, it's all kinda fucked up.
D.S.: How do you feel about people bootlegging your show? Does that bother you?
Pogo: Obviously, it should. I mean, I'm still a capitalist, we all are. I mean, I could use the money they're making off the bootlegs. Another thing is that they usually suck because fans get a low quality product that hasn't gotten the Marilyn Manson stamp of approval of quality. So you're ripping off the public and 2nd, I could use the money to buy drugs with, and it pisses me off. So there are 2 good reasons why it sucks. I mean, right now they're taking drugs out of my mouth everytime they do that. I find that offensive.
D.S.: When is the video set to come out?
Pogo: It should be out sometime this next year, it is being compiled presently.
D.S.: What will the video consist of?
Pogo: All kinds of magical stuff, going ahead on revealing it wouldn't be any fun, you know, it's like you have to wait until you get inside the Chocolate factory to see what it's like. That's what makes it fun. It's like getting a golden ticket when the video arrives. There you go, but until then, the outside of the factory is all you get to see.
D.S.: Anything you would like to talk about?
Pogo: Yeah, just learning to speak Chinese.
Pogo: Yeah, to annoy Spanish people in line at supermarkets. You know, they're always talking about me in Spanish, and it annoys me when they don't use English in public so I'm learning to speak Chinese so I can talk about them and piss them off back. It's fun.
D.S.: Why were you originally not going to play tonight?
Pogo: Because the stage ain't too fucking big!
D.S.: When you're not touring, what do you usually do?
Pogo: I don't know, really, this is all I do. make sounds, play music, get fucked up, get on the bus, and do it again. It's good and I like it, it's very exciting.
D.S.: Have you ever had any formal training in the keyboard?
Pogo: Hell no. I had never picked one up until I joined this band. I'm not about musicians, I hate musicians. I'm all about entertaining, you know. That's why I have more in common with a stripper than fucking Billy Joel. I'm more worried about entertaining than writing art and all that stupid shit. It's not about art at all, it's about giving something fun and putting on a show. Not standing around in shorts and playing fucking cool songs and just being utterly boring like fucking Helmet. I love Helmet's music, but to watch them live I fucking fall asleep.
D.S.: What other music do you listen to?
Pogo: Old Bee Gees, AOR rock, we're into classic rock because all the classic rock stations have become alternative stations and now they suck so the only alternative is AOR rock. Now all we listen to is bad Journey, bad Aerosmith, and shitty stuff like that we used to hate, but now that that's the alternative, that what's not on the radio or MTV. So now the Bee Gees, and all this other exciting stuff, that's what we're about, everything is boring, for us to freak out we put on Lionel Richie and throw on some jeans, it's great.
D.S.: Scary, sounds like my mom's music.
Pogo: Exactly, that's frightening, we put on Billy Joel real loud, lie around in jeans, and just go crazy. Once you get so crazy, very normal things become crazy. Like in the crazy world, some things appear insane. So we live in a crazy alternate universe which you can't explain unless you're in it. So, like for us, the most insane thing is Lionel Richie and Billy Joel.
D.S.: Scary, very scary.
Pogo: Exactly, completely wrong in the "normal" world.
D.S.: Are you online?
Pogo: I don't like the internet personally. To me it's just a place for gossip and other bullshit. I mean, why tie up all these beautiful telephone lines with nothing but gossip, it's nothing more than just a big fucking party line. Everybody in the world is now on the internet. Do-Be-Do-Be-Da In like a year it went from nothing to everything. The internet is useful for some things like transacting bank statements and shit like that, but for the most part it's just a bunch of bullshit. It's just a bunch of hype too, everyone in the world has become all mystified, except no one knows that the fuck they're doing on the internet. They don't know how their computer works. The old days when I had computers we had to do programs ourself. You did everything yourself, typed in the code, programmed everything. If something went wrong you knew how to fix it, now if something crashes, you don't know if something crashed in the fucking DOS shell or did it crash in the fucking windows shell or what went down fucking where and Do-Be-Do-Be-Da. There are so many layers of shit it's become like cars, you can't fix them by yourself anymore, you have to take them to a mechanic. It's all a fucking scam to make you dependent on a magical box. You press a button and this magical information comes up, you don't know how the fuck it does it. No one does. They just use it without having any clue on how it does it. The fucking waste it. Most people would die if all they had was 4 megs. 4 megs is huge, now all these computers have 512 megs. I remember 10 years ago when 1 meg was a lot, then it was 64 megs. People just waste it all. It's all wasted data. Out entire show consists of less than 16 megs. everything in all our albums put together is less than half a gig, all the sounds we use, and that's nothing. It's like why have a big filing cabinet, you're never gonna have enough room, and closet space, no matter how much you have it's never enough. It's because people waste it. I'm so happy for that guy who wrote a program that closed down the net a few years back. I hope he writes another one. Anyone can claim to be anyone. People have acted like me before, it's a bunch of bullshit. I mean, garbage in, garbage out.
D.S.: About the only good thing I have found is that it's easier to get info on you guys.
Pogo: But a lot of times it is inaccurate. What's the point of information if it is not accurate? That's misinformation and that is actually worse for you.
D.S.: Do you have any input into the "Official Homepage?"
Pogo: No, we don't have any computers except for our manager who has one for business purposes, but as far as going on the internet, no.
D.S.: How long have you been on tour?
Pogo: Two years
D.S.: Where is your home now?
Pogo: New Orleans
D.S.: How do you like Clutch?
Pogo: They're cool, I liked their 1st record a lot, they're great guys, I enjoy partying with them, smoke a lot of grass, it's all a good thing. They're very different from us, which is good.
D.S.: I have heard where on one of your songs, if played backwards, you can hear "Onward Christians Marching."
Pogo: Yeah, there is some pro-Jesus stuff on some stuff backwards. Remember, if you get something devil and backmask it, you reverse it and it becomes good. Devil stuff backwards is actually good stuff. Therefore if you want to make something good you say it in reverse. So if you want to make something evil, you take a Christian thing and play it in reverse. So when you play it forward which is the way you would normally play a CD, it is reverse so it is the opposite of what it means. So something devil in reverse makes it good forward. So all of out backward messages are about the lord, and we are very excited about that.
D.S.: What religion do you follow?
D.S.: Do you believe that there is anything out there?
Pogo: No, this is it.
D.S.: So basically, have fun while you can?
Pogo: No, well, this is all there is, you can choose to have fun or you can choose not to. It is your life to make it as you wish. The main thing is to find what you want to do, it's up to you. Everyone gravitates to where they want to be. If you want to be led, then find a church and a leader will lead them. People who want to be an individual may become a Satanist or whatever. Everyone comes to a philosophy. If you want all the answers, then go to a religion with all the answers. Just go to who you want to go. A lot of people go crying to God, ya know. Just whatever.
D.S.: And to some people, you are God.
Pogo: Oh, that would be cool, I would be happy with that. Hopefully they will give me offerings of drugs. So if anybody does think that we are God, bring us offerings of drugs. And we will get our divine greatness.
D.S.: Will there ever be a Marilyn Manson metal lunchbox?
Pogo: We tried a long time ago, there is only one company that still makes them, but they aren't in the U.S. The shipping and weight would be very hard to deal with. I mean, 10 lunchboxes takes the place of 100 t-shirts.
D.S.: Did you guys have to pay at all to use the Willy Wonka boat in "Dope Hat?"
Pogo: The boat is not exactly the same. It is designed differently. You can make a reference to something, like "SNL" can do a skit and make a reference to something.
D.S.: How long did it take you to grow the goatee?
Pogo: 4 years
D.S.: My friends were scared when they saw your picture.
Pogo: Good, that's how it's supposed to be. Mediocre sucks.
D.S.: Other friends thought that I would never return from the interview.
Pogo: It's better to know whether or not people like you or hate you. That's what we're all about. We don't care if people like us or hate us, as long as walk away without an opinion.
D.S.: Whenever I wore the "Beware of God" shirt, many people told me I was going to hell.
Pogo: Cool. I mean, I don't know anyone in heaven so why would I want to go there? I know none of my relatives will be there.
D.S.: You know, we will all end up partying in Hell.
Pogo: A "real" Christian can never even get into heaven.
D.S.: Why not?
Pogo: If you were really like Christ, ok, what did Christ do? Christ, supposedly, died for all our sins so all of us would not go to hell, right? Now, a "True Christian" goes up to heaven and can supposedly see the torment in hell La-Da-De-De-Da. Well, how can they be in heaven and see someone suffering in Hell? They would be like "Oh, I'll gladly go and trade places with this poor person and let them go to heaven," just like Jesus supposedly did. Jesus couldn't stand to see people suffering, it's ridiculous. So what, is it a one shot deal only? This is it, get saved now or never. It is completely illogical. That's why it's religion. It makes no sense, it's bullshit. It is based on faith, which is belief without proof. Which is the exact opposite of what Western Europen minds use this bullshit to lead to proof, but faith said you shall have no proof. And all these dumb assholes who go looking for Noah's Ark and all this shit is defeating the purpose of religion.
D.S.: Do you thing that one day science will prove Christianity wrong?
Pogo: Even if it did, it still wouldn't stop the real Christians. The whole point of religion is not to be proved or disproved, it is just meant to be accepted.
D.S.: Do you like or hate Christians?
Pogo: No. Whatever works for someone else. If you want to be a Christian fool, just don't try to make me one. That is why I have more respect for Jews because they don't come around to my fucking door everyday. But other religions that try to make others like them, they can kiss my ass.
D.S.: Have you ever done anything cruel to like, a Jehovah's Witness?
Pogo: No, I just invite them to read my books when they come to the door. They don't want to read my book, so I don't read theirs. I even invite them into my house for a debate. See, they don't want to do that. I might scare them. See, I tell them to come back at midnight. So far, none of them have come back.
D.S.: Do you like vampires?
Pogo: No. I hate vampires. You know, people who think they are a vampire. Here is my challenge, let me walk up to you and shoot you in the chest. No wait, shoot you in the head to stay away from the heart, with a lead bullet, not silver or anything, just regular lead. And if you continue to live, I will believe you are a vampire. People then say, "Well, I'm not that kind of vampire." What do you mean, can you die!? You can't turn into a bat, you can't control the weather, then what the fuck is the point of being a vampire if you have no special powers? You're just a regular person, FUCK OFF!! So I don't believe any of that shit, you know. If someone walks up to you and shoots you in the face and you live, Woo, I'll be excited. Wow, a vampire! Rock on! Otherwise, it's a load of shit because they have no special powers. Just because you have fangs and drink blood, so what? I can drink piss. Who cares?
D.S.: Do you have a favorite movie?
Pogo: Not a favorite movie. You know, if a movie is good, it's good.
D.S.: Did you like Dawn of the Dead?
Pogo: Yeah, that movie scared me. Night and Dawn of the Dead. Carnival of Souls. Basically, I like everything and I hate everything at the same time.
D.S.: Have you ever seen MST3K?
Pogo: Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many time. Many times. It is the Grandfather of all pop culture.
D.S.: Well, thanks for the interview.
Interview by Derek Slaton.